At 4:12 PM -0400 10/3/00, Dan Kappus is rumored to have typed:

The shame is not that smart people come off like total idiots in flame fests, but that those who could have been helped to use smartlist go away unhelped.

Perhaps some people aren't as interested in help as they are in making a fuss. Or in not honoring private responses, while carefully forwarding only those parts that do _not_ embarass themselves.

You may be really an amazing admin with years of experience around mail,

Um, for the record, I never said that. Nor did I call myself a "unix expert." Are you sure you don't have your targets reversed?

but you aren't showing what an amazing human you are when you flame those persons who ask stupid questions.

I do _not_ flame those who ask "stupid questions," nor did I ever suggest I was or wanted to be an "amazing human." Please go back and read my original reply to Mr. Reisberger carefully - the only people I flamed were those IPPs who shove their support onto this list. My original message to him dealt specifically with something _he_ said, not Mr. Jellema; heck, I thought Werner did a nice job of front-line help (check the log), and so wasn't thinking about Mr. Jellema at all. I admit I did use publically-available information about Mr. Jellema's posting provider as an example, because it was handy, but I was not frankly talking to him at all in my reply, rather I was talking to Mr. Reisberger and other old-time members of this list, hoping to solicit comment on the recent trends in the questions here.

As to my replies to Mr. Jellema, both public and private (oh, right, even my private response was made public without my consent, so there's not much difference, is there?) they were crafted specifically because of his indignation, the excuses he made for same, and his later private comments to me which I will _not_ discuss. Please note he was replying to a message that was not targeted to him, and for some inexplicable reason decided to take everything I said in my reply to Mr. Reisberger personally. (Indeed, he is _still_ sending me email about all of this, which I am currently ignoring.)

Please pardon my soliloquy(sp) here, but I can't help but note how odd it is that people coming here for help leave here much crisper and with more carbon than when they started.

There are _many_ people who ask "stupid questions" (by that I assume you mean asking novice questions, since there really can't be any such thing as a "stupid" question, only stupid humans) who receive more help than you can possibly imagine from me, up to and including helping them rewrite recipies and the like. Like I said before, ask. Not _everyone_ becomes crisped by my keyboard; I try to teach _anyone_ interested in learning how SmartList works. I admit I tend not to help those who want me to do it _for_ them, but if they're willing to learn how to fish, I'm willing to hold their hand on the bank. (And as an aside, if you think I'm flaming people in my postings here, it's obvious you've never seen a true flame war. I don't pump out enough heat, comparatively speaking, to light a cigarette.)

The people I have little tolerance for are those who suddenly freak out for no good reason, directing their attack at me. And I will completely stand by my original points; within the last few weeks there have been an unusually high number of people saying both publically and privately that their provider gives them SmartList but does not support it, and directs them to this list. That shifts support costs onto us, and is simply wrong. You're welcomed to disagree with me, of course, and I'd love to hear your comments on _that_ subject, but the rest of this is a red herring.

(And my thanks to those people, whom I will not name, who have sent me supportive email. Unlike some people, I am honorable enough _not_ to make private email public, but I thank you just the same.)

Ok, I'm done with this, since I'd rather spend time helping people who want to learn than justify what seems perfectly reasonable to me. I will not respond on this matter again, so everyone may feel free to have the last word.

Charlie