April 2001 - Smartlist - lists.rwth-aachen.de

Moderated lists and digests
by CueMan 15 Apr '01

15 Apr '01

Hi, Has anyone had any luck configuring SmartList as moderated and the moderated list having a digest component? Thanks, --Paul T. --

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Controlling submissions
by O'Rourke, Tom (CTR) 14 Apr '01

14 Apr '01

According to what I've read there are only two steps necessary to limit or restrict individuals from posting requests. 1) Uncomment the foreign_submit directive in rc.custom 2) Delink the accept file from the dist file and edit it accordingly. This isn't working for me. Has anyone tried this feature? Regards, Tom O'Rourke

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Smartlist not processing bounces at all!
by Ken Bass 13 Apr '01

13 Apr '01

Been running Smarlist for about 6 years. Currently running the 'latest' version 3.15. Upon examing my log files I have found that SmartList is not handling bounces at all. This has been going on since June 2000. I'm not sure what if anything I changed back then, perhaps upgraded sendmail? procbounce never gets executed and all the files in my bounces directory are dated June 2000. At the bottom of this email is a test input msg. I am using the stock rc.request but the recipes are NOT matching on ANYTHING bounce related. In particular, for any bounced msg, I see from the log file: procmail: Executing " sed -e $cutoff_bounce' q' >tmp.request" procmail: Assigning "LASTFOLDER= sed -e $cutoff_bounce' q' >tmp.request" procmail: No match on "^Subject: (Warning - delayed mail|(WARNING: message ([^ ]+ )?|Mail )delayed|(Returned mail: )?(warning: c(an|ould )not send m(essage fo|ail afte)r|Unbalanced '"'|Cannot send (within [0-9]|8-bit data to 7-bit)|Data format error|Headers too large|Eight bit data not allowed|Message (size )?exceeds (fixed )?maximum (fixed|message) size)|Undeliverable (RFC822 )?mail: temporarily unable to deliver|\*\*\* WARNING - Undelivered mail in mailqueue|Execution succee?ded)" procmail: No match on "^Subject: (Returned mail: )?(Service unavailable)" procmail: No match on "^Subject: (Warning from|mail warning| ?Waiting mail)" procmail: No match on "^(..?)?X-Loop: ()vulcan(a)vroc\.org $bounce$" procmail: No match on "^Content-Type:[ ]*multipart/report;[ ]*\/[^ ].*" procmail: Assigning "LOCKFILE" procmail: Unlocking "tmp.lock" procmail: No match on ! "< 524288" procmail: Match on "(^(Mailing-List:|Precedence:.*(junk|bulk|list)|To: Multiple recipients of |(((Resent-)?(From|Sender)|X-Envelope-From):|>?From )([^>]*[^(.%@a-z0-9])?(Post(ma?(st(e?r)?|n)|office)|(send)?Mail(er)?|daemon|m(mdf|ajordomo)|n?uucp|LIST(SERV|proc)|NETSERV|o(wner|ps)|r(e(quest|sponse)|oot)|b(ounce|bs\.smtp)|echo|mirror|s(erv(ices?|er)|mtp(error)?|ystem)|A(dmin(istrator)?|MMGR|utoanswer))(([^).!:a-z0-9][-_a-z0-9]*)?[%@> ][^<)]*($.*$.*)?)?$([^>]|$)))" procmail: Executing "formail,-A,X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored" procmail: Match on "^X-Loop: ()vulcan(a)vroc\.org" procmail: Executing "formail,-A,X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem" procmail: No match on ! "^X-(Diagnostic|Processed):" procmail: Assigning "INCLUDERC=" procmail: No match on ! "^X-(Diagnostic|Processed):" procmail: Executing "formail,-AX-Envelope-To: vulcan-request" procmail: Match on ! "." procmail: Locking "request.lock" procmail: Assigning "LASTFOLDER=request" procmail: Opening "request" procmail: Acquiring kernel-lock procmail: Unlocking "request.lock" Thus the email get dumped into the request folder. Why in the world would the below msg not match on that? The receipe snippet from rc.request is # # Enable special handling for DSNs # :0 A * ^Content-Type:[ ]*multipart/report;[ ]*\/[^ ].* * ^Mime-Version:.*1.*\..*0 * MATCH ?? report-type="?delivery-status"? * B ?? ^Content-Type:.*message.*delivery-status { # If there were no fatal errors, drop it :0 B * ! ^Status:[ ]*5[ ]*\. /dev/null isadsn=yes } # # Anything that still survived is most likely to be a bounce message. # :0 Ahfw * ! ^X-Diagnostic: | procbounce Also, has anyone written/updated the procbounce processing to handle the multiple recipients listed in the DSN msg? Looking at the FAQ and various other places, I see that was on a TODO list. I've create a small test setup where I extracted the rc.request bounce related recipes and can try to debug this on the command line. Before I invest a lot of time in this, I want to know if anyone else has already done this. HELP! Hope I have provided some information for us to work with. >From MAILER-DAEMON(a)vroc.org Sun Apr 8 00:15:26 2001 Received: from localhost (localhost) by nomad.vroc.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f384FPi19035; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:26 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:26 -0400 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON(a)vroc.org> Message-Id: <200104080415.f384FPi19035(a)nomad.vroc.org> To: test-request(a)vroc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="f384FPi19035.986703326/nomad.vroc.org" Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --f384FPi19035.986703326/nomad.vroc.org The original message was received at Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:25 -0400 from list@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- kbass2_b(a)clark.net (reason: 550 Unknown local part kbass2_b in <kbass2_b(a)clark.net>) kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net (reason: 550 Unknown local part kbass_bounceme in <kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net>) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx2.veriomail.com.: >>> RCPT To:<kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net> <<< 550 Unknown local part kbass_bounceme in <kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net> 550 5.1.1 kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net... User unknown >>> RCPT To:<kbass2_b(a)clark.net> <<< 550 Unknown local part kbass2_b in <kbass2_b(a)clark.net> 550 5.1.1 kbass2_b(a)clark.net... User unknown --f384FPi19035.986703326/nomad.vroc.org Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; nomad.vroc.org Arrival-Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:25 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; kbass2_b(a)clark.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx2.veriomail.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Unknown local part kbass2_b in <kbass2_b(a)clark.net> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:26 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx2.veriomail.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Unknown local part kbass_bounceme in <kbass_bounceme(a)clark.net> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:26 -0400 --f384FPi19035.986703326/nomad.vroc.org Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: <test-request(a)vroc.org> Received: (from list@localhost) by nomad.vroc.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f384FPh19035; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:25 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Bass <kbass(a)clark.net> X-Sender: kbass@kbass To: test(a)vroc.org Subject: eee Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10104080015140.2682-100000@kbass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <wBK2iB.A.UpE.dX-z6(a)www.vroc.org> Resent-From: test(a)vroc.org X-Mailing-List: <test(a)vroc.org> archive/latest/32 X-Loop: test(a)vroc.org List-Help: <mailto:test-request@vroc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <mailto:test-request@vroc.org?subject=subscribe> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:test-request@vroc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:test@vroc.org> Precedence: list Resent-Sender: test-request(a)vroc.org --f384FPi19035.986703326/nomad.vroc.org--

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make list public
by Ellen V 13 Apr '01

13 Apr '01

Can anybody help me with making the subscriber list public? I need to be able for member of the lists to be able to command a copy of the members on the list. I have read the manual but do not understand how to make a link from the dist file to archive/subscribers. Thanks, Ellen

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The old 'moderate' program?
by CueMan 09 Apr '01

09 Apr '01

Anyone using the old 'moderate' program? I have set it up but get the following error from sendmail: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|exec /home/lists/.bin/moderate ListOwners" (expanded from: <ListOwners(a)oolaa.cuenet.com>) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Can't open Mailfile /home/lists/ListOwners/moderate/9868231191653: No such file or directory 554 "|exec /home/lists/.bin/moderate ListOwners"... unknown mailer error 2 Thanks, --

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installing smartlist
by Martin Lexa 08 Apr '01

08 Apr '01

Hi folks, I try to install SmartList on a providers freebsd server. I have only a virtual-server with only one user-acount 'XAVER'. My mailing is called 'testing'. Before I created it like this: createlist testing lm(a)inno-media.com Now I only get dead.letters like this one: >From -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:43 2001 Return-Path: -request(a)inno-media.com Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23621 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:43 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23601 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23591 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23582 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23573 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23564 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:42 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:42 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23548 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:41 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23539 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:41 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23529 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:41 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23517 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:41 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23497 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:41 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23488 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23475 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23457 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23448 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23437 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-From_: -request(a)inno-media.com Tue Mar 27 11:04:40 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23427 for lm(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: anabell10.hetzner.de: xaver set sender to -request(a)inno-media.com using -f X-From_: xaver(a)anabell10.hetzner.de Tue Mar 27 11:04:39 2001 Received: (from xaver@localhost) by anabell10.hetzner.de (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA23399 for testing(a)inno-media.com; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:39 +0200 (CEST) From: WEBGATEWAY <xaver(a)anabell10.hetzner.de> Message-Id: <200103270904.LAA23399(a)anabell10.hetzner.de> X-Envelope-To: testing(a)inno-media.com Subject: test smartlist (subject) 2 To: testing(a)inno-media.com Old-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist X-Diagnostic: Non-existent mailinglist Test smartlist content 2 xaver Could some one pls help ???? Martin Lexa ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Martin Lexa Email mailto:Martin.Lexa@inno-media.com INNO-MEDIA AG Internet http://www.inno-media.com Schwanheimer Str. 144 a Tel.: 06251-5847-20 64625 Bensheim Fax: 06251-5847-777

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header/Footer missing
by Gary Harris 08 Apr '01

08 Apr '01

Greetings, I have three lists on two different domains, maintained by the same host. All three lists were set up as newsletter lists, and I followed the FAQ at http://www.hartzler.net/smartlist/SmartList-FAQ.html#Section_2.10 I have Uncommented the line "RC_LOCAL_SUBMIT_20 = rc.local.s20" from your rc.custom file I have created a rc.local.s20 file with the following in it: # # Adding a disclaimer in front of every mail: # :0 fhw | cat - header.txt # # Appending a footer to every outgoing mail: # :0 fbw | cat - footer.txt And I have created a header.txt and a footer.txt file. Here's the problem. All lists were working fine. Header and footer would show up without any problem. Recently, however, my posts to these lists have NOT had headers or footers. In all cases, there were no changes to the list between when they were wporking and when the header/footer stopped showing up. Provider says "Try uninstalling and reinstalling lists". I guess it's not that bog a deal, but why would this happen. Not only are both domains on same host, they are both residing on same machine. Any ideas? Thanks

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no copy needed for sender
by Greg Matheson 08 Apr '01

08 Apr '01

I am setting up a front end from procmail recipes and perl scripts to Smartlist that creates lists on the basis of email requests. I am somewhat worried about nasty code coming in via an email, but the reason I ma writing is different. I want to stop Smartlist sending out a copy to the original sender of messages that come in to the list, just send it out to everyone else. I want to try and make writing to the list as much like writing to the person on the other end. [These are goign to be 2-person lists.] And this copy of your own message has disconcerted some of my students. I think it will be a matter of checking rc.submit. Perhaps I should be doing that rather than writing this email. Thinking about it, this could involve some work. The senders address will have to be deleted from the dist list, I think. -- Greg Matheson If there is one thing we learn from the Chinmin College, study of language learning, it is that Taiwan language learners learn more than we learn.

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a newbie question
by michael lim 07 Apr '01

07 Apr '01

Hi... I am new to Smartlist and have a very basic and simple question to ask: I have successfully run through the Smartlist shell install file, and consequently created a mailing list "testing" under the the user name "slist", so I have a dir /home/slist. all files sitting under /home/slist/.bin and .etc There aren't any more information on the INSTALL and Manuel from here onwards. Now if someone would like to subscribe to my mailing list "testing", who should they mail to: slist-request(a)my.domain or testing-request(a)my.domain ?? Of course, I have tried these options and the mail bounced back with an user unknown message. Something is not right here and I would appreciate any help michael

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Re: problems with subject replacement recipe
by Vince LaMonica 07 Apr '01

07 Apr '01

On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, era eriksson wrote: Sorry for the massive delay in replying to this. I wanted to post the solution for the archives. Era was correct in that I was not MATCHing correctly. Basicly I already had the multiple Re Re Re problem solved, but I was getting extra spaces in my Subject. I'm cross-posting to the smartlist list as well, since this recipe is used in my rc.local.s20 file. Background info follow the working recipe. Here it is: ################################ # :0 # is the subject tagged already? If not, capture it * ! ^Subject:.*\[The\ Box\].* * ^Subject: [ ]*\/[^ ].*$ { # strip off any leading "Re: " strings CURSUB=`echo $MATCH | sed -e 's/R[Ee]:[ ]*//'` :0 fhw | formail -I"Subject: [The Box] $CURSUB" } :0 Efhw # see if it is a tagged reply; if so, move the "Re:" * ^Subject: *(Re: *)+\[The\ Box\] [ ]*\/[^ ].*$ | formail -I"Subject: [The Box] Re: `echo \"$MATCH\" | \ sed -e 's/^ *R[Ee]: *//g'`" # # NOTE: all above brackets contain <space> <tab> # ################################### The above recipe takes a subject and prepends [The Box] to it. Any preceeding "Re:"s to [The Box] get moved: Subject: [The Box] Re: test. Again, sorry for the late reply. /vjl/ } On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:58:00 -0500 (EST), Dallman Ross <dman(a)nomotek.com> } wrote: } >> I'm having a problem with the follow recipe under procmail v3.10 } } (That's an awfully old version, but I haven't been following this } thread -- or the list -- so perhaps this has been noted alrady.) } } >> * ^Subject: *\/.*$ } > No need for the trailing `$', though it doesn't change anything } > except perhaps the slowing of things down by a tiny, tiny } > increment. } } Actually, it will include the trailing newline in MATCH, which may or } may not be what you're after. But the " *" before the \/ doesn't skip } any spaces. That's because the \/ operator changes how things are } matched. You probably want "^Subject:[ ]*\/[^ ].*" with tabs and } spaces in between the square brackets. } } $ cat <<'HERE' >~/scratch/r } > SHELL=/bin/sh } > :0 } > * ^Subject: *\/.* } > { LOG="MATCH='$MATCH' } > " } } > :0 } > /dev/null } > HERE } } $ while read subject; do } > echo "Subject: $subject" | procmail ~/scratch/r } > done <<'HERE' } > subject } > subject } > } > this is a test } > HERE } MATCH=' subject' } MATCH=' subject' } MATCH=' ' } MATCH=' this is a test' } } >> { # strip off any leading "Re: " strings } >> CURSUB=`echo $MATCH | sed -e 's/^ *R[Ee]: *//g'` } > The above line is a problem. You are telling sed to find multiple } > instances of a line's beginning, for one; but there will only be } > one match of a line's beginning. So the g-flag is useless with the } > leading caret. } } I'd imagine the intent is to remove repeated Re: prefixes. The regular } expression asks for space or beginning of line immediately before the } R, which is not captured by your updated proposal. } } Try this instead: } } CURSUB=`echo "$MATCH" | sed -e 's/^$R[Ee]:[ ]*$*//'` } } } It looks for and replaces repeated "Re: " prefixes at beginning of } line (i.e beginning of the extracted, now hopefully canonicalized } Subject). } } > Second, you've already stripped away leading spaces up above in your } > original match of the subject. So we don't need the ` *' after the } > caret that we also didn't need. } } (No, that was not true with the earlier regex. See above.) } } > Btw, sed doesn't need an -e for just one expression - though it } > doesn't hurt anything. } } (I use it routinely because it's easy to forget later if you make } modifications to the sed script.) } } > My second cup of coffee has not helped me wake up enough to allow me to } > have had light shed on what you're doing here exactly. I see in general } > terms, but don't follow your heuristic that requires munging the subject } > both in the main recipe and in the "Else" (E-flag) recipe. Maybe a } > flow-chart on the back of a napkin would help - either you or me, or both } > of us. :-) Basically, though, try to think through an algorithm that } > only needs that mess once. :-) } ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ } Agree with this. } } I believe Eli the Bearded once posted a recipe which basically solved } this even for pathological cases -- I'd go to the archives for a } solution; this is by no means a new topic. } } Hope this helps, } } /* era */ } } -- Vince J. LaMonica // T e a m // Photographer: aviation, sports, vjl(a)cullasaja.com XX/ A M I G A // nature, art, travel, documentary This e.mail was composed on Apr 6, 2001 at 3:53pm PDT.

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