I'm using the latest version of SmartList. Recently I had an episode in which subscriber A started selectively bouncing all mail from subscriber B. SmartList automatically unsubscribed subscriber B, rather than the address creating the bounced mail (A).
Leaving aside the question of why A and B can't just get along, is there a solution to the erroneous behavior? Is this a bug of which the developers are aware?
At 10:56 AM -0500 1/6/03, Don Doumakes is rumored to have typed:
Recently I had an episode in which subscriber A started selectively bouncing all mail from subscriber B.
It's unlikely he's "bouncing" mail through his SMTP server; I could, for example, add your address to sendmail's access file as a REJECT, but your list messages would still get through, since when the list distributes a message _it_ is the envelope sender, not you. Looks more like A is doing something with procmail, or worse some moronic Windoze application that trusts the From: header field.
Leaving aside the question of why A and B can't just get along, is there a solution to the erroneous behavior? Is this a bug of which the developers are aware?
Since I can't see the bounces A was generating, I wouldn't want to declare that there _isn't_ some obscure bug in SmartList, but I'd be more prone to think the problem was the way A was bouncing the messages. I've (rarely) seen SmartList get confused by badly malformed mailer messages, but in 99.99% of the cases SmartList gets it right even then...and I've seen some so screwed up that _I_ had a hard time figuring out what address the mailer was rejecting.
Your specific problem doesn't seem to call for a technical solution, but rather a social one. My solution would be, as listmaster, to reinstate B and immediately unsubscribe A until A bought a clue on how to tell the difference between Return-Path: and From:. A is welcomed to dump mail from B to /dev/null, but A is _not_ welcomed to impact my mailing list server in a tiff with B. You don't need to judge (nor even _care_) who's "right" between A and B, you only need to show that B's actions are NOT impacting your server negatively, where A's ARE, so A needs the attitude adjustment.
Assuming A understood that sending mail back to the list was unacceptable and stopped it, I'd reinstate A provisionally (probably logging any mail from A's end of the world for a while to prevent it from happening again). If on the other hand A refused to deal with the problem, you're likely better off without A on your list anyway, since this _will_ happen again when A gets miffed at C. And D. And...
But that's just me, and you're welcomed to handle it however you feel comfortable. This would be an interesting question to pose to list-managers or the like, but I don't see SmartList being directly at fault here. This seems squarely within the social domain of the listmaster.
Charlie
I also have experienced this problem. I don't know if it's a SmartList bug or somehow caused by the bounce mail message. Below are examples of bounced email from two different list members that caused the wrong address to be removed - any ideas on a solution would be appreciated.
Currently my work-around was to move the most important list members above the line in "(....)" that indicates they can not be automatically removed. Both cases below the same person was removed, yet the email bounced from two different list members.
--------------- sample #1 ----------------- Subject: You have been removed from the list From: atommib-request@research.telcordia.com Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:46:58 -0500 (EST) To: heard@pobox.com
Your mail address heard@pobox.com has been removed from the atommib@research.telcordia.com mailinglist. It generated an excessive amount of bounced mails.
Before sending in a subscription request to atommib-request@research.telcordia.com again, please ensure that this problem has been resolved. When in doubt, ask your system administrator or send mail to "postmaster".
The last one of those bounced mails has been quoted below:
From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Dec 28 14:46:56 2002
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON> Received: from mail01a.rapidsite.net (mail01a.rapidsite.net
[207.158.192.230])
by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.6/8.12.1) with SMTP id
gBSJkq6o016618
for atommib-request@research.telcordia.com; Sat, 28 Dec 2002
14:46:53 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:46:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: 200212281946.gBSJkq6o016618@thumper.research.telcordia.com From: Postmaster@multiport.com To: atommib-request@research.telcordia.com Subject: Mail Delivery Warning X-Loop-Detect: 4 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS - amavis-milter (http://www.amavis.org/)
This is an advisory-only email. Please do not reply to it. Delivery of email to this address "rnewcomb@multiport.com" has been postponed due to a full mailbox. We will continue to try to deliver your message over the next few days. The first 50 lines of your original message follow:> Received: from
thumper.research.telcordia.com (128.96.41.1)
by mail01a.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 08606 for rnewcomb@multiport.com; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:45:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slmgr@localhost) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.6/8.12.1) id gBSJgXFC016317; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:42:33 -0500 (EST) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:42:33 -0500 (EST) Old-Return-Path: heard@pobox.com X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process
doing -bs
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) From: "C. M. Heard" heard@pobox.com X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" bwijnen@lucent.com cc: "Kam Lam (E-mail)" hklam@lucent.com,
mstewart@doradosoftware.com,
a_n_huynh@yahoo.com, "Thomas Narten (E-mail)" narten@us.ibm.com, "Erik Nordmark (E-mail)" Erik.Nordmark@sun.com, "Atommib (E-mail)" atommib@research.telcordia.com Subject: Re: FW: submitting draft-ietf-atommib-opticalmib-07.txt
to IESG
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------------- sample #2 ---------------- Subject: You have been removed from the list From: atommib-request@research.telcordia.com Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:49:50 -0500 (EST) To: heard@pobox.com
Your mail address heard@pobox.com has been removed from the atommib@research.telcordia.com mailinglist. It generated an excessive amount of bounced mails.
Before sending in a subscription request to atommib-request@research.telcordia.com again, please ensure that this problem has been resolved. When in doubt, ask your system administrator or send mail to "postmaster".
The last one of those bounced mails has been quoted below:
From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Dec 28 14:49:48 2002
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON> Received: from titan02.ksc.nasa.gov (titan02.ksc.nasa.gov
[163.205.195.2])
by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id
gBSJni6o016813
for atommib-request@research.telcordia.com; Sat, 28 Dec 2002
14:49:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from titan.ksc.nasa.gov (titan01w [163.205.1.1]) by titan02.ksc.nasa.gov (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id gBSJnch21574 for atommib-request@research.telcordia.com; Sat, 28 Dec 2002
14:49:38 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:49:28 -0500 From: Postmaster@titan.ksc.nasa.gov Subject: Undeliverable Mail To: atommib-request@research.telcordia.com Message-ID: return.021228144928.124@titan.ksc.nasa.gov X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS - amavis-milter (http://www.amavis.org/)
Bad address -- juhr@titan02.ksc.nasa.gov Error -- Address refused by receiver (titan02.ksc.nasa.gov): -- juhr@titan02.ksc.nasa.gov (550 5.1.1
juhr@titan02.ksc.nasa.gov... User unknown)
Start of returned message
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doing -bs
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) From: "C. M. Heard" heard@pobox.com X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" bwijnen@lucent.com cc: "Kam Lam (E-mail)" hklam@lucent.com, mstewart@doradosoftware.com, a_n_huynh@yahoo.com, "Thomas Narten (E-mail)" narten@us.ibm.com, "Erik Nordmark (E-mail)" Erik.Nordmark@sun.com, "Atommib (E-mail)" atommib@research.telcordia.com Subject: Re: FW: submitting draft-ietf-atommib-opticalmib-07.txt to
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"As you were saying, Don Doumakes:"
I'm using the latest version of SmartList. Recently I had an episode in which subscriber A started selectively bouncing all mail ...
I solved this one by unsubscribing both of them. Crude but effective. If there's a procmail/SmartList fix for this I would be happy to know of it.
smartlist@lists.rwth-aachen.de
-
Charlie Summers -
Don Doumakes -
Richard A. DeMattia -
Tony DeJoie