How can I customise the welcome message when people subscribe to the list, for each individual list I have on my server, i.e. having a different welcome message for each list. The subscribe.txt file is common to all lists, and when I change it, it sends the same message whatever the list is.
At 12:37 PM -0400 7/29/02, Anne Avaro is rumored to have typed:
How can I customise the welcome message when people subscribe to the list, for each individual list I have on my server, i.e. having a different welcome message for each list. The subscribe.txt file is common to all lists, and when I change it, it sends the same message whatever the list is.
(*sigh*) 8.2 in the FAQ: http://www.hartzler.net/smartlist/SmartList-FAQ.html#Section_8.2 Since it's clear you don't understand the concept of linked files, I'd suggest you also read: http://www.hartzler.net/smartlist/SmartList-FAQ.html#Section_2.15 ...to understand how to delink the file before editing. Please read the entire FAQ file before posting any additional questions to the mailing list...you'll find most of your answers there, and you'll also know better how to ask those questions whihc may not be directly addressed there. Charlie P.S. Again to Peter, might want to note in 8.2 that the files are hard-linked and should be delinked prior to editing for non-systemic purposes...it's growing clear that most new users don't understand the basics of nix. (Maybe it's time to consider copying some of these files instead of linking?) Me
I had this problem when I started with Smartlist and I didn't use the unix delinking to fix the problem. I just deleted the subscribe.txt file, then uploaded (via ftp) to each list's directory on the server the new subscribe.txt file I'd composed for that list on my home machine. I didn't want to get into learning the whole unix thing - that's what I have a husband to handle - nothing sexist here, he's just been doing it since the 80s so I concentrate on learning things he doesn't know or that I really need, and I have an alternate method here (given above) that works just as well for me, plus I don't have to spend time looking up unix commands which I don't use frequently enough to actually memorize. I think this last bit is the main point! Anne Charlie Summers wrote:
At 12:37 PM -0400 7/29/02, Anne Avaro is rumored to have typed:
How can I customise the welcome message when people subscribe to the list, for each individual list I have on my server, i.e. having a different welcome message for each list. The subscribe.txt file is common to all lists, and when I change it, it sends the same message whatever the list is.
(*sigh*) . . .Since it's clear you don't understand the concept of linked files, I'd suggest you also read ...to understand how to delink the file before editing.
At 4:39 PM -0400 7/29/02, Anne Judge is rumored to have typed:
I had this problem when I started with Smartlist
It is NOT a "problem." It is a misunderstanding on the part of the user as to how to alter the specific file in question on a list-specific basis. It is operating EXACTLY as designed, and so cannot be a "problem." (Sorry, but it's annoying to hear someone who admits they don't want to bother learning how things work assume there's a problem where none exists, simply BECAUSE of their self-imposed ignorance.)
and I didn't use the unix delinking to fix the problem.
I'm afraid you DID use "unix delinking." (For the record here, there is no unix delink command, there is rather a shell script included with SmartList that, "Gracefully disconnects a hardlinked file." You might want to read it to see what it does...I think you'll be surprised. Feel free to FTP it into your machine and use SimpleText to read it...wouldn't want to learn cat, right?)
I just deleted the subscribe.txt file, then uploaded (via ftp) to each list's directory on the server the new subscribe.txt file I'd composed for that list on my home machine.
Which does, of course, delink the file data from the directory. A "link" is a pointer to an area on the hard drive telling the machine where the requested data resides. If you delete a file, you really don't "delete" anything (that is, you don't remove any of the data within the file), you just destroy the pointer to the hard drive sectors. That _IS_ delinking. The "hard" links that SmartList creates are just seperate pointers to the same place on the hard drive, so the same data has multiuple pointers. Whether you specifically use the .bin/delink command, or delete the file, you ARE delinking the file. You aren't using an "alternate method" at all.
I didn't want to get into learning the whole unix thing - that's what I have a husband to handle
(*sigh*)
plus I don't have to spend time looking up unix commands which I don't use frequently enough to actually memorize.
Again, it isn't a unix command, it's a SmartList tool. And, to be blunt, if you're going to run SmartList, you should have a clue about the underlying operating system. If you seriously don't want to bother wasting time understanding a little bit about the OS and SmartList, might I suggest YahooGroups? Charlie (who wonders if you would, using the Mac, seriously suggest you don't need to learn how to use the mouse...)
Dear Charlie, After monitoring this list for about a year and a half now, I think (as I'm sure MANY others do as well) that's it's time for you to get down off your homemade pedestal and stop being such a self-imposed JERK. You are no doubt an excellent coder, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to be, too. Otherwise, the only need for this list would be to inflate some already over-inflated egos. We all have our areas of expertise, while in other areas we depend on someone else's. When done in a manner of genuine community spirit, not only do great things happen, but we can enjoy doing them, too. I'm sorry if you've had a bad day, but really . . . with your knowledge and expertise . . . there is no excuse for such poor email, or any other kind of, etiquette and common courtesy. You will probably have a snide and clever comeback, but might I suggest, that if you truly want to be the "mentor/teacher" of this list, that you will simply accept this as constructive criticism . . . silently; and remember it the next time you respond to someone less "gifted" than yourself. We could learn a lot from you . . . if you would only let us. Shalom Self-imposed ignoramus and peacemaker ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie Summers To: anne.judge@alum.mit.edu ; smartlist@Lists.RWTH-Aachen.DE Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: Re: welcome message At 4:39 PM -0400 7/29/02, Anne Judge is rumored to have typed:
I had this problem when I started with Smartlist
It is NOT a "problem." It is a misunderstanding on the part of the user as to how to alter the specific file in question on a list-specific basis. It is operating EXACTLY as designed, and so cannot be a "problem." (Sorry, but it's annoying to hear someone who admits they don't want to bother learning how things work assume there's a problem where none exists, simply BECAUSE of their self-imposed ignorance.)
and I didn't use the unix delinking to fix the problem.
I'm afraid you DID use "unix delinking." (For the record here, there is no unix delink command, there is rather a shell script included with SmartList that, "Gracefully disconnects a hardlinked file." You might want to read it to see what it does...I think you'll be surprised. Feel free to FTP it into your machine and use SimpleText to read it...wouldn't want to learn cat, right?)
I just deleted the subscribe.txt file, then uploaded (via ftp) to each list's directory on the server the new subscribe.txt file I'd composed for that list on my home machine.
Which does, of course, delink the file data from the directory. A "link" is a pointer to an area on the hard drive telling the machine where the requested data resides. If you delete a file, you really don't "delete" anything (that is, you don't remove any of the data within the file), you just destroy the pointer to the hard drive sectors. That _IS_ delinking. The "hard" links that SmartList creates are just seperate pointers to the same place on the hard drive, so the same data has multiuple pointers. Whether you specifically use the .bin/delink command, or delete the file, you ARE delinking the file. You aren't using an "alternate method" at all.
I didn't want to get into learning the whole unix thing - that's what I have a husband to handle
(*sigh*)
plus I don't have to spend time looking up unix commands which I don't use frequently enough to actually memorize.
Again, it isn't a unix command, it's a SmartList tool. And, to be blunt, if you're going to run SmartList, you should have a clue about the underlying operating system. If you seriously don't want to bother wasting time understanding a little bit about the OS and SmartList, might I suggest YahooGroups? Charlie (who wonders if you would, using the Mac, seriously suggest you don't need to learn how to use the mouse...) _______________________________________________ Smartlist mailing list Smartlist@lists.RWTH-Aachen.DE http://MailMan.RWTH-Aachen.DE/mailman/listinfo/smartlist
At 8:33 PM -0400 7/29/02, Shalom Bonham is rumored to have typed:
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>You will probably have a snide and clever comeback
Nope. I reserve those for people who merit them. You just get a *plonk* Charlie :0 * ^X-BeenThere: smartlist@ * ^Received:.*oregonsbest.com /dev/null
Adding my Amen to Shalom's message. I have been sorely tempted to write a similar message. Dan At 05:33 PM 7/29/2002, Shalom Bonham wrote: Dear Charlie, After monitoring this list for about a year and a half now, I think (as I'm sure MANY others do as well) that's it's time for you to get down off your homemade pedestal and stop being such a self-imposed JERK. You are no doubt an excellent coder, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to be, too. Otherwise, the only need for this list would be to inflate some already over-inflated egos. We all have our areas of expertise, while in other areas we depend on someone else's. When done in a manner of genuine community spirit, not only do great things happen, but we can enjoy doing them, too. I'm sorry if you've had a bad day, but really . . . with your knowledge and expertise . . . there is no excuse for such poor email, or any other kind of, etiquette and common courtesy. You will probably have a snide and clever comeback, but might I suggest, that if you truly want to be the "mentor/teacher" of this list, that you will simply accept this as constructive criticism . . . silently; and remember it the next time you respond to someone less "gifted" than yourself. We could learn a lot from you . . . if you would only let us. Shalom Self-imposed ignoramus and peacemaker
WebHead wrote:
Adding my Amen to Shalom's message. I have been sorely tempted to write a similar message.
Dan
You know, I once asked a question here, the answer was in the FAQ, or the manual, and Charlie busted me on it in much the same way. Then he explained the whole thing to me, chapter and verse, in terms even my poor brain could cope with until my 'problem' was solved. He can be rough, but I remember when _everyone_ on the net was a techie and this was the nature of it. Lot's of 'RTFM' messages to those who couldn't be bothered to read the manual or the faq, or do any research before asking the question. I'm sure most of the adepts mutter to themselves about these questions, Charlie just doesn't have a safety catch on his keyboard. Deal with it, or take your whining off-list. Les
Les, Sorry you think its whining. While I agree the FAQ and manual should be read prior to writing to the list, not all of us can read and understand clearly what the proper approach is merely by reading them. Sometimes we need a little handholding. As you said, you did get that from Charlie. I deal with customers everday in my business who rely on me to either fix their problems or help direct them to the answers. I stay ahead of my competition by providing that information in a courteous way, even though I may feel that its covered in my online help. It is not beneath me to give those answers, its part of the service. Do I always like having to do it? No. Perhaps this list does not require the courtesy given to paying customers. But why set yourself up to be a mentor voluntarily, then complain loudly because someone asks before reading the FAQs? I don't fault the quality of Charlie's advice or his reasoning, merely his approach. 'Nuff said. Dan At 09:16 PM 7/30/2002, les wrote: WebHead wrote:
Adding my Amen to Shalom's message. I have been sorely tempted to write a similar message. Dan
You know, I once asked a question here, the answer was in the FAQ, or the manual, and Charlie busted me on it in much the same way. Then he explained the whole thing to me, chapter and verse, in terms even my poor brain could cope with until my 'problem' was solved. He can be rough, but I remember when _everyone_ on the net was a techie and this was the nature of it. Lot's of 'RTFM' messages to those who couldn't be bothered to read the manual or the faq, or do any research before asking the question. I'm sure most of the adepts mutter to themselves about these questions, Charlie just doesn't have a safety catch on his keyboard. Deal with it, or take your whining off-list. Les _______________________________________________ Smartlist mailing list Smartlist@lists.RWTH-Aachen.DE http://MailMan.RWTH-Aachen.DE/mailman/listinfo/smartlist
Charlie Summers wrote:
At 4:39 PM -0400 7/29/02, Anne Judge is rumored to have typed:
I had this problem when I started with Smartlist
It is NOT a "problem."
If something isn't working the way you want, it IS a problem until you figure out what it's doing and fix it.
and I didn't use the unix delinking to fix the problem.
I'm afraid you DID use "unix delinking."
Strictly semantics. *I* did not type the unix command - I told my GUI FTP program to delete the file (by highlighting the file's name in the program's window & hitting command-delete), and *IT* sent the appropriate Unix command. OK, maybe I should have stated "type the unix delinking command" (which is what I actually meant) instead of "use the unix delinking," so I'm guilty of sloppy wording. As for comments about my attitude, I see no need to learn something just to show what a macho computer jock I am, when X-commands and my FTP program with the GUI front end have done EVERYTHING I have ever needed to do in setting up & administering Smartlist lists. I don't believe the vast majority of people can remember a command used only a couple times a year. I can't, and I'm generally considered to have above-average memory. And looking things up every time you need them, when you have an instant but different method of accomplishing the same thing, is a waste of time, in my opinion. Some people like to do their word processing and page layout in latex for the control it gives them; I prefer Word to do the dirty work. On the other hand, I still program HTML because I haven't found a WYSIWYG editor in my price range (really cheap) that gives me the control I want. If you like that level of immediacy & control in dealing with the remote computer (unix box), fine, or if like my husband the commands come so naturally from decades of use that you don't have to think before typing them (15 years ago I was like that with the Apollos' unix-like OS), then by all means use it since it's efficient and fast for you. [At this point I should interject that if you're *not* working remotely, then you probably use unix on the computer in question already, you're in the unix-jock - nicest sense possible - class with my husband, and you're in a completely different situation than the one I'm addressing.] But don't rag on people who have found a way that works better for them - a buffer between them and the actual (rarely-used, therefore forgotten) commands - and have the temerity to offer it as a suggestion to others. This list should be to help others use the software, not to enforce orthodoxy in the approach used. Or am I wrong there? Anne
At 12:58 AM -0400 7/31/02, Anne Judge is rumored to have typed:
OK, maybe I should have stated "type the unix delinking command" (which is what I actually meant) instead of "use the unix delinking," so I'm guilty of sloppy wording.
One more time; there is no "unix delinking command." (Ok, purists, maybe rm.) There is a shell script tool ("convenience-utility") included with SmartList named "delink," and its usage is clearly noted in the Manual file included with the distribution. Charlie (who's quit with this silly nonsense)
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Charlie Summers wrote:
At 12:58 AM -0400 7/31/02, Anne Judge is rumored to have typed:
One more time; there is no "unix delinking command." (Ok, purists, maybe rm.) There is a shell script tool ("convenience-utility") included with SmartList named "delink," and its usage is clearly noted in the Manual file included with the distribution.
The salient point here being that what the FTP GUI does when you tell it to delete a file is not the same as what the SmartList "delink" script does, and it requires at the least several steps to accomplish with an FTP GUI what the "delink" script does in one execution. Which means (a) you have several times as many chances to make a mistake while using the FTP GUI, and (b) when you use the term "delink" in discussions on this mailing list, readers will think you mean that you used the script and assume that you therefore did not make any of those mistakes, and therefore may give you wrong advice/instructions. Written speech on a technical mailing list needs to be as concise and accurate as possible to avoid confusion. The user interface you choose (or are forced) to use is unrelated to the necessity to understand and employ the correct terminology.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 12:58:44AM -0400, Anne Judge wrote:
I don't believe the vast majority of people can remember a command used only a couple times a year. I can't, and I'm generally considered to have above-average memory. And looking things up every time you need them, when you have an instant but different method of accomplishing the same thing, is a waste of time, in my opinion.
Most of us can't remember all the commands, and certainly not all their many options. I'm too lazy to even try; I figure if I'm going to perform a task more than once, however frequently or infrequently, I'll teach it to the computer, in the form of a script, or alias, or whatever. The ability to easily encapsulate commands, or series of them, is why many of us prefer CLIs to GUIs. I know the converse opinion intimately; if my wife could type her email with a mouse, I'm sure she'd prefer to do it that way... :) Jim
Charlie -- Thanks for your suggestions and illuminations; I've folded 'em in, and added a small bit to Section 1.7. As always, I welcome suggestions to improve the FAQ. "SmartList Frequently Asked Questions" http://www.hartzler.net/smartlist/SmartList-FAQ.html "1.7: Is there a SmartList Support mailing list?" http://www.hartzler.net/smartlist/SmartList-FAQ.html#Section_1.7 Enjoy! Pete. On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Charlie Summers wrote: ...
It makes more sense to add [subject header munging] in s20, after all other processing is done. Why? Well, if you have a digested version connected to the list, we've discussed at length here how to _remove_ the darned munge in the digested rc.local.s00. Better, IMHO, to, in rc.local.s20: ... [injecting messages into the digest with a a pipe call to flist] has the added benefit that we don't have to subscribe the digest list to the undigested list's dist file and waste a call to sendmail to deliver the mail that we can easily pipe directly into flist; it also means the additional Received: header fields caused by mailing the file across the directory aren't an issue. (I can't figure out why something this simple isn't included in the Manual file as The Right Way To Do It.) ... note in 8.2 that the [list customization] files are hard-linked and should be delinked prior to editing for non-systemic purposes...it's growing clear that most new users don't understand the basics of nix. (Maybe it's time to consider copying some of these files instead of linking?)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 After having the problem with the 25 copies of the accept.txt message getting sent to a non-accept list subscriber, and since I'm just testing the system, I decided to start over. I performed a "removelist list" and then a "creatlist list". I then subscribed a user (one of my accounts), received the reply that I was subscribed and I then sent a message. I did not get the message. I looked at the log and I kept seeing: "formail: Duplicate key found: ..." I decided to start again, removed and created a list. I turned on LOGABSTRACT. and here is what the log file has: subscribe: merman@sdrsc.org by: merman@sdrsc.org Tue Jul 30 18:39:07 PDT 2002 - From merman@sdrsc.org Tue Jul 30 18:39:07 2002 Subject: Folder: subscribe 726 Subject: Testing again Folder: choplist 32 8 64 0 200000 4 dist /usr/lib/sendmail -oem -odb 950 formail: Duplicate key found: <200207310139.SAA21657@mango.he.net> - From list-request@sdrsc.org Tue Jul 30 18:39:34 2002 Subject: Testing again Folder: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache 1316 Does anyone know either what is happening (it seems that the check in the rc.submit is causing the problem, but commenting it out doesn't solve it--the message never goes out.) And better yet, how to fix it? Thanks. Peace, Gyan Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved. -- Osho. ���`�����`���o,,,,o���`���o���`���o,,,,o���`���o���`��� Gyan Penrose-Kafka * gyan@zenmonkey.net * ICQ # 37394131 P.O. Box 232092, Encinitas, CA 92023 USA -- tel: +760.613-4926 ���`�����`���o,,,,o���`���o���`���o,,,,o���`���o���`��� For my PGP key send a message to pgpkey@zenmonkey.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. iQA/AwUBPUdVFKpfFVI4NVzFEQL4owCbBmrpsWBH69khoYsVgajU25GZ8q4AoKUv w9TF5eb9gGzJqJzp8/v+vvnN =yLIt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (10)
-
Anne Avaro -
Anne Judge -
Bart Schaefer -
Charlie Summers -
Gyan Penrose-Kafka -
Jim Osborn -
les -
Peter Hartzler -
Shalom Bonham -
WebHead