This takes into account the 40% discount indicated in Amy Brais's email. However, this discount used to be higher. Here is the usual text from Springer (if it's still valid?):

"A standard number of 50 free copies of the book are given to the editor(s). Additional copies needed for distribution at the meeting or to contributing authors etc. can be bought at a discount of (at least) 45 % off the list price; this discount is increased to 47.5 % or 50 %, etc. if at least 100 copies or at least 200 copies, etc. are bought (respectively). For proceedings with more than some 750 pages, the aforementioned discounts can be (slightly) improved as well as the number of free copies."

Note also that the table from Amy Brais (from Springer) mixes list prices (for both LNCS) and bulk prices (for IFIP primary series), which is non sense. This is the reason why the primary LNCS series looked so cheap!

Moreover, I have used the same price for IFIP LNCS as standard LNCS. We have to verify with Springer that the bulk price for standard LNCS and IFIP LNCS are indeed equal (even though the list prices are not!), because there are no royalties to IFIP on bulk sales for IFIP LNCS.

For non bulk sales, standard LNCS will cost 42 EURO and IFIP LNCS 58 EURO (note the huge difference, which is much more than 10%, which are the royalties due to IFIP on estimated non bulk sales)

(Don't know how Springer will estimate the number of sales!)

(Again 40% discount, but it is likely to be higher)

Note: It is unlikely that Springer will sell 249 books at this price! This may mean that IFIP will get almost no royalties in fact!

Otto

What we need to calculate is the NET cost to IFIP ie what the WG pays less the royalty to IFIP.

How IFIP splits the money internally between TCs & WGs and IFIP's central costs is an IFIP issue not a matter for the publisher.

It appears to me

Route A (IFIP LNCS)

5850 - 1444 = 4406

Route B (Standard LNCS)

4242 - 0 = 4242

Route C (IFIP main series)

4759 - 3000 = 1759 (maximum)

(No royalty on bulk sale and 12% on sale price of full price if/when all sold)

Otto - if your figures are correct and I do not have the information to hand this means that after 500 euros of royalties the IFIP main series is cheapest for the IFIP "family".

If this is correct then we have to find a way of funnelling more of the royalty back to the TC/WGs to reduce conference costs. For example in the above example why not give 10% of the royalty to the TC/WG that earns it. In most cases (except where full price sales are very low - which is very unusual) the overall cost to the TC/WG would be less than any LNCS price.

PROPOSAL -

Royalties come in to IFIP as the books sell. An increased proportion should be given to TC/WGs. Once a steady state is reached, TCs could subsidise future events with royalties from past events. Everybody wins.

Note - Assuming these figures are correct, the most expensive route is IFIP/LNCS - which looks to be a rip-off. Basically rather than sharing profits with IFIP for offering the publisher a series to publish with the reduction of office work and marketing etc. involved in that, LNCS add a surcharge and pass it back to IFIP less a handling charge of 10%!

Good wishes

Roger

********************************************

Dr Roger Johnson

Dean, Faculty of Social Science &

Honorary Secretary, International Federation for Information Processing

Birkbeck College, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX  UK.

Telephone: (+44) 20 7631 6709

FAX:       (+44) 20 7631 6727

URL:       http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~rgj

College location:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=wc1e7hx&Z=1

IFIP:      http://www.ifip.or.at/

********************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Spaniol [mailto:spaniol@informatik.rwth-aachen.de]
Sent: 21 October 2005 13:08
To: Spaniol; Eduard Dundler; Roger Johnson; Klaus Brunnstein; turner@cs.clemson.edu; Amy.Brais@springer.com; Ifip-Tc6Linformatik.Rwth-Aachen.De
Subject: LNCS Prices once again

Dear all,

there was another mistake, sor for that ("Ifip regular" was meant to be

""standard LNCS").

Otto

--------------------------------------

Proceedings publication example:

Assumptions: 250 pages; 151 copies taken by the organisor;

estimated 400 copies produced in total (out of which are 50 complimentary

copies if IFIP LNCS is used).

A1. Total cost for the organisor with "IFIP LNCS":

    Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50 for free.

    Total price:   101 x 58 = 5,858 EURO

A2: Royalties to IFIP with "IFIP LNCS":

    10 percent of estimated 350 books:  0.10 x 350 x 58 = 2,030.20 EURO

    10 percent of estimated 249 books:  0.10 x 249 x 58 = 1,444.20 EURO

    The second line would be valid if no royalties would be paid for the bulk

    copies; which line is the correct one?

B1. Total cost for the organisor with "Standard LNCS":

    Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50 for free.

    Total price:   101 x 42 = 4,242.00 EURO

B2: Royalties to IFIP with "Standard LNCS":

    None at all.

C1. Total cost for the organisor with "Regular IFIP series":

    Total price:   151 x 31.52 = 4,759.52 EURO

C2: Royalties to IFIP with "Regular IFIP series":

    12 percent of 400 books (list price!):  0.12 x 400 x 100 EURO =

4,800.00 EURO

    12 percent of 400 books (bulk price!):  0.12 x 400 x 31.52 EURO =

1,512.96 EURO

   Is has been assumed here that all of the 400 produced copies would be sold.

   I assume that royalty paid would be a mixture of price for bulk sales

   and for books sold on the free market (whose number could be very near

to zero

    since the normal list price is 125 USD, i.e. approx. 100 EURO, which is

   outrageously high) and that no rroyalties will be paid for books which 

    have been produced but can nver be sold due to high prices.

    This needs explanation.

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