Dear Lyman,
It's a pity that you cannot be with us next week-end. So, let me
congratulate you now for the nice job you've done as moderator at ACM
SIGCOMM when Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn have delivered their Turing
lecture. I've followed this very interesting discussion at midnight at
home through the Internet.
This said, I fully agree with you that royalties on paper
publications will converge to 0 since (non bulk) proceedings sales
will converge to 0, but I'd still like to have clarifications from
Springer and IFIP officials on the following points:
1. Royalties on electronic sales (of IFIP papers present
in the Springer LINK DL, either in the IFIP LNCS or primary IFIP
series)
Based on article 31 of the agreement between IFIP and Springer
(especially items b and c), I don't understand clearly how the
royalies are paid on electronic sales. I guess there are at least 3
ways to access electronic publications in the Springer DL:
(I) by buying electronic articles individually, or
(II) by buying a complete electronic book (i.e. the full
proceedings), or
(III) as part of a flat rate (institutional or individual) annual
fee for the whole electronic IFIP series.
Perhaps IFIP gets 2% on (III), gets 12% on the very unlikely
(II), and I don't even know if (I) is covered at all.
Besides, we should realize that very few researchers will
actually pay for individual electronic articles (or proceedings). They
will usually find them on the personal web pages of the authors (via
citeseer or Google scholar). Therefore, even these sales will generate
marginal royalties I'm afraid. Many institutions have already
cancelled their access (completely or partially) to these expensive
DLs (like Elsevier or Springer), and some are only considering open
access DLs. This trend will continue.
2. Clarifications from Springer are also needed on the following
points:
(1) the bulk price of IFIP LNCS: Clearly the
list prices of standard LNCS and IFIP LNCS are not the same, but
the bulk prices should normally be the same (because there are no
royalties on bulk sales).
(2) the discount on bulk sales for both standard and
IFIP LNCS: It used to be 45% or more, but the last email from Amy
Brais refers to 40%.
(3) the way Springer will estimate the non bulk sales for
IFIP LNCS (because royalties are paid on estimated non bulk
sales)
(4) the fact that high list prices for the primary IFIP
series is very detrimental to the visibility (i.e. sales) of IFIP
publications.
Best regards,
Guy
At 20:00 -0400 22/10/05, Lyman Chapin wrote:
Otto,
I apologize for repeating myself, especially because I cannot join
you in Wroclaw next weekend to participate in the debate.
It does not matter what Springer or anyone else charges for books
printed on paper and bound in hard covers. It does not matter what
Springer or anyone else pays as a royalty to IFIP on sales of
these
books. Printed books as the records of technical conferences are
no
longer important (and this has been true for many years now - it
is
not "news"). Every minute that we spend in TC6 and in IFIP
talking
about book royalties is wasted, because we should be talking
instead
about how to support IFIP activities without relying on royalties
from the sale of books.
- Lyman
At 1:55 PM +0200 10/21/05, Otto Spaniol wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Guy Leduc informed me that my example has some flaw since
"Springer LNCS"
>will also offer 50 free copies. Thus I have to adopt my
calculation example
>somewhat (see below).
>
>Best regards
>Otto
>>--------------------------------------
>>
>>Proceedings publication example:
>>
>>Assumptions: 250 pages; 151 copies taken by the
organisor;
>>estimated 400 copies produced in
total (out of which are 50 complimentary
>>copies if IFIP LNCS is used).
>>
>>A1. Total cost for the organisor with "IFIP
LNCS":
>>
>> Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50
for free.
>>
>> Total price: 101 x 58 =
5,858 EURO
>>
>>A2: Royalties to IFIP with "IFIP LNCS":
>>
>> 10 percent of estimated 350 books:
0.10 x 350 x 58 = 2,030.20 EURO
>> 10 percent of estimated 249 books:
0.10 x 249 x 58 = 1,444.20 EURO
>>
>> The second line would be valid if no
royalties would be paid for the bulk
>> copies; which line is the correct
one?
>>
>>B1. Total cost for the organisor with "IFIP
Regular":
>>
>> Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50
for free.
>>
>> Total price: 101 x 42 =
4,242.00 EURO
>>
>>B2: Royalties to IFIP with "IFIP Regular":
>>
>> None at all.
>>
>>C1. Total cost for the organisor with "Regular IFIP
series":
>>
>> Total price: 151 x 31.52
= 4,759.52 EURO
>>
>>C2: Royalties to IFIP with "Regular IFIP
series":
>>
>> 12 percent of 400 books (list
price!): 0.12 x 400 x 100 EURO =
>>4,800.00 EURO
>> 12 percent of 400 books (bulk
price!): 0.12 x 400 x 31.52 EURO =
>>1,512.96 EURO
>>
>> Is has been assumed here that all of
the 400 produced copies would be
>>sold.
>> I assume that royalty paid would be a
mixture of price for bulk sales
>> and for books sold on the free market
(whose number could be very
>>near to zero
>> since the normal list price is 125
USD, i.e. approx. 100 EURO, which is
>> outrageously high) and that no
rroyalties will be paid for books which
>> have been produced but can nver be
sold due to high prices.
>> This needs explanation.
>
>
>
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--
________________________________________________________________________
Prof. Guy
Leduc Phone : +32 4 366
26 98
Université de
Liège Secr : +32 4 366 26 91
Réseaux
Informatiques Fax : +32 4 366 29 89
Research Unit in Networking
(RUN)
Email: Guy.Leduc@ulg.ac.be
EECS Department, Institut Montefiore, B 28, B-4000 LIEGE 1,
BELGIUM
http://www.run.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/People/GuyLeduc/
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