Hello, My host offers mailing lists through the installed SmartList program. I am also a reseller for said host, so my customers may also have mailing lists. Can you point me towards any resources that deal with SmartList specifically from the beginning end-users standpoint? End-users who do not have access via/(or don't want to use) telnet and also don't have access to modify the program itself, just their own directory files, and who also don't know a whole lot about programming. For instance, I've seen a lot of the same FAQs over the past few days saying to de-link the accept file from the dist file. I discovered quite by accident that if I deleted the accept file then recreated a new one, they were no longer linked. Now that is something a newbie can handle! Jo
At 3:42 PM -0500 11/13/00, Listmail is rumored to have typed:
My host offers mailing lists through the installed SmartList program
Yippee...bet'cha this is the same outfit using that silly web interface that works about half the time...
For instance, I've seen a lot of the same FAQs over the past few days saying to de-link the accept file from the dist file. I discovered quite by accident that if I deleted the accept file then recreated a new one, they were no longer linked. Now that is something a newbie can handle!
You know, personally I think it's a whole lot easier to use .bin/delink (which is detailed in the Manual file - you did read it, didn't you?)...but yeah, deleting one of the links and touching a new link with the same name will work. Maybe in this instance what your users really need is a book on beginning unix ("Unix for Dummies" comes to mind; got a copy on the shelf behind me myself), since hard links (or soft links, for that matter) are hardly SmartList-specific. It's kinda like saying a Windoze shortcut to Microsoft Word is Word-specific, and so the mechanics of shortcuts should be discussed in the Word manual. And in my humble opinion, newbies should NOT be using SmartList directly, anyway. As the reseller, you set up the lists, maintain the server, and then allow your users to use emailed X-Commands to manage their lists. That way, they can't screw anything up (not even their own list); any idea how many X-Commands would need to be sent to unsubscribe every subscriber, as opposed to a simple "rm dist accept"? Of course, this would mean _you_ would need to learn SmartList, but then you should, anyway. A free, open-source software package requires an investment of time, since you ain't paying anything in cash. (And before you say it's part of your hosting payment, please remember that your host is getting it free, giving it to you, and then cutting you off on your own without supporting it. Until someone pays Philip for the software, or us for the support they are abdicating, it's free software.) Charlie
Quote from Charlie: And in my humble opinion, newbies should NOT be using SmartList directly, anyway. As the reseller, you set up the lists, maintain the server, and then allow your users to use emailed X-Commands to manage their lists. That way, they can't screw anything up (not even their own list); Of course, this would mean _you_ would need to learn SmartList, but then you should, anyway ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *IF* I had access to the installed software, I would certainly make the effort. I have to use it as an end user as well:o( And yes, I did read the manual file, but again, without seeing the actual source it's difficult to grasp (as well as pointless if I can't alter it anyway). I would love to support my customers that way, but there is a limit to what the x-commands do (very little in fact!). With the ease of eGroups, they've all been spoiled...I'd be here all day configuring and re-configuring their lists at every whim.... I'd rather provide them the means / teach them to do it themselves. There's nothing really irrepairable that can't be fixed by starting over with a new list if they do happen to screw anything up. Now if they had access to the source that would be a different story... I am trying to create a perl script to make it easy for the newbies... They complete a form with their desired config options, and it spews back the text for them to copy and paste /save as their rc.custom file. However, there are some things that require work outside the rc.custom file. Until I have time to get this all finished and write my own user's manual, I would like to be able to direct them to resources elsewhere in the meantime. Thanks for your response. Jo
At 5:53 PM -0500 11/13/00, Listmail is rumored to have typed:
I am trying to create a perl script to make it easy for the newbies...
There are a bunch of existant web-based front-ends to SmartList; perhaps you'd be better off editing one of those instead of writing the same thing fomr scratch. (I speak from experience; a long time ago, I, too, wrote a SmartList web-based front-end for users. I decided to teach them how to use X-Commands instead, and maintain the lists _for_ them, and have never had a problem since.) Granted, user permissions become an issue here (does the host you are reselling use any suid wrappers to allow CGIs to run as the user instead of nobody?), but you'll have the same problem with copy/paste, except more so. How many times do you think your users are going to upload files to the server with <CR><LF>pairs. (or <CR>s for the Mac users) instead of unix line-feeds? I'm betting your clients won't be using pico or vi... ;) And again, if you are constrained this badly, you might seriously consider installing your _own_ implimnentation of procmail/smartlist. (I used to have a virtual unix account on a shared machine, and had no problem installing my own procmail/SmartList install. Back then, the provided mailing list software was mReply - if you remember using that, you remember a much kinder, gentler Internet.) Charlie
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