I can understand your fustration with people not willing to invest the time and energy into the 'learning curve', but america needs 500,000 new programmers, and many of the ones that are here now are very overworked, and smartlist/procmail can be very fustrating and demanding of your time. that is why I switched to ezmlm. after i installed qmail (a very good tutorial by adam mckenna, showed how). I had a fully functional list the same day. many of the functions of a mailing list that are standard, are a pain with smartlist. in ezmlm, i had a new digested, moderated, list up with one command. i suggest if anyone is having a problem doing something with smartlist, stop butting your head against the wall, install qmail, and ezmlm (300,000 delievers a day for lists.mysql.com) and relax this weekend. qmail convert, #mike