February 2003 - Smartlist - lists.rwth-aachen.de

RE: Subject line
by Gyan Penrose-Kafka 20 Feb '03

20 Feb '03

How about considering problems from alternate perspectives or problems that exist outside of your limited exposure to the software that other people use (or are we all supposed to fall into line and think in exactly the same manner and use the same software package that someone proscribes for us?) In fact, my e:mail client has an extensive filtering capability and I have many filters some of which are quite complex. The issue on my end is as a way to quickly isolate spam from legitimate and useful messages (such as come from the smartlist group) and therein has more to do with the McAfee SpamKiller program and the rude incidence of some messages coming from the smartlist group that don't actually say "to: smartlist....". This is because some e:mail clients (like Outlook), don't automatically offer the option to use the Reply-To vs. the From field, and thus replies from some clients go to the original sender rather than the list, and the sender then adds the list as a CC. Because SpamKiller only allows me to mark as a "friend" messages from an approved address, or conversely, messages "to" an address, those messages that people send a CCd message to the list get filtered into my SpamKiller eMail box, because the header contains the right information, but they are not marked as coming from a friend. Thus, as I continue to build out my anti-spam filters, I have to spend time determining if the messages that got past the filters are really good messages or spam. Having "[smartlist]" in the subject makes that process very easy. And in fact, I think this is probably the only list that I am a member of which does not include a tag in the subject field denoting the list that it comes from. Certainly it isn't because someone proscribes that it must be there, but simply because most people find it useful. Your travel may vary, but this is what I, as a member of this list, would find more useful and helpful. On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:24:59 -0500, Charlie Summers wrote: >At 3:09 PM -0500 2/19/03, Gyan Penrose-Kafka is rumored to have typed: >> How about: "[smartlist]" in the subject line. > Or, how about you take a moment to read the documentation on your email >client (PMMail 2000 Professional; never used it) and determine how you might >filter this list and others into their own mailboxes/folders/whatever your >client calls 'em. Munging a subject is an unnecessary waste of time for those >of us who _do_ read the dosumentation to our clients and easily filter the >mail to its own area. Filter on the X-BeenThere: header field, any of the >List-*: header fields, or any of the OTHER unique fields. (See Mr. Ball's >postings as to why it's a really bad idea.) > This is really easy stuff, requiring the user only to spend a few moments >learning how their email client works. I'm currently using a six-year-old >email client, and it handily filters; certainly more modern clients with Y2K >names will do as much. > Charlie Summers Peace, Gyan Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved. -- Osho. ��`��`��o,,,,o��`��o��`��o,,,,o��`��o��`�� Gyan Penrose-Kafka * gyan(a)zenmonkey.net * ICQ # 37394131 P.O. Box 232092, Encinitas, CA 92023 USA -- tel: +760.613-4926 ��`��`��o,,,,o��`��o��`��o,,,,o��`��o��`�� For my PGP key send a message to pgpkey(a)zenmonkey.net

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Re: Subject line
by Donald MacDougall 20 Feb '03

20 Feb '03

On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 08:53:04PM -0500, KHIMAIRA ~ Linda Campbell wrote: > > I have looked through the FAQs and can't seem to find a way to add some > designated text to the subject line for list mail. It would be a great help > to our clients who want to identify their lists with some text. Can someone > please point me in the right direction? > It's documented somewhere but it isn't easy to find. What I do is this. Add to the file rc.local.s20 the following recipe: SUBJ=`formail -zx Subject:` # extract the subject :0 fw * ! Subject:.*\[list name\] * ! Subject:.Re: \[list name\] * | formail -I "Subject: [list name] $SUBJ" Then uncomment the line near the endo of rc.custom that says: RC_LOCAL_SUBMIT_20 = rc.local.s20 Now I'll be the first to tell you that this isn't perfect, because sometimes peoples "Re:" prefixes on their replies are a little different than this expects or the list is carboned on a message to some other list or some such thing so that the subject line looks a little different and so you occasionally get message that have a subject line like "Re; [list name] RE: [list name] or whatever. But in my experience it doesn't happen too often. You might find differently however. I keep meaning to fancy it up a bit to try to catch some of those anomalies, and in fact I've seen one or two slick recipes somewhere to do just that, but lethargy prevails. There are those on this list who will argue strenuously that you oughtn't to do this at all, but many like it and so there you are. Don MacDougall

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Re: Can one-way lists be created?
by Larry Tai 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

Hi, Thanks for all the posts. The responses helped me clarify a few things that I did not quite understand before. The restrictions desired were requested by the faculty. Some of our undergraduate service classes have over 400 students in them. Although the lists that I'm creating are for smaller classes. BTW, that was my first post to the list. I was surprised to get the following response back yesterday, shortly after I sent the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:47:16 -0500 From: Mailer-Daemon <Mailer-Daemon(a)massart.edu> To: larry(a)wald.ucdavis.edu Subject: NDN: Can one-way lists be created? [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: paonia,Mass College Art (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apparently, my submission got through to the list okay eventually. Can anyone shed some light on this, regarding the above mailer-daemon response. Thanks. -- US-Mail: Larry Tai Department of Statistics 368 Kerr Hall University of California, Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: larry(a)wald.ucdavis.edu or lptai(a)ucdavis.edu Tel: (530)-752-6085 FAX: (530)-752-7099

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Re: Can one-way lists be created?
by Donald MacDougall 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 09:27:25AM -0800, Larry Tai wrote: > > BTW, that was my first post to the list. I was surprised to get the > following response back yesterday, shortly after I sent the message. > > ....... > > Apparently, my submission got through to the list okay eventually. > Can anyone shed some light on this, regarding the above mailer-daemon > response. Apparently there is an entry on the list that is incorrect or no longer valid and gets bounced back by the mail server at the receiving end. You get this error message everytime you post to the list. Since your email address is on the From: line, the mail server at Mass College of Art sends the bounce message to you. The character set complaint is another issue entirely. Don MacDougall

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Re: Can one-way lists be created?
by Donald MacDougall 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 01:21:41AM -0500, Charlie Summers wrote: > At 12:26 AM -0500 2/14/03, Donald MacDougall is rumored to have typed: > > > Then you want to rm the symlink named accept which links to the > > dist file and instead creat an accept file which contains the email > > addresses of all the people who should be able to submit to the > > list. > > ANd, since From: header fields are easily forgable, you should _still_ > make your list moderated and require those "trusted" users to "approve" their > messages as well. (See archives for pointers to various patches for multiple > maintainers, different methodology for approving messages, and other security > considerations.) > > Charlie Well, ok. I suppose. But if I were setting up a few lists for a few instructors to communicate with a few students I wouldn't. The potential for abuse is just to low. I have lists for each of our four classes of medical students and don't restrict them in any way. They are entirely open to posting by anyone anywhere, and in five years or so have only had two small incidents of companies getting hold of the list names and sending advertising to them, probably given to the companies by students who thought they were good things for their fellow students to know about. I've blocked those companies and the lists remain open. We allow the students to post, not just the instructors and administrators, although there was considerable pressure in the beginning to restrict it. Faculty felt that their "important" email would get lost in all the (in their opinion) inconsequential student posting. My argument for allowing students to post is that email lists are just too convenient a method of communication to be suppressed and so if we try to restrict ours, the students would soon be gathering up email addresses and producing their own lists. If we allow them to use ours it allows us to keep an eye on what is getting exchanged on the list, and we have an idea how many, supposedly inconsequential, student postings ours are getting buried in. If we force them to creat their own, we will never know. Students tend to police their own lists pretty well anyway. They don't like spam anymore than anyone and if someone gets out of line they get pounced on pretty quickly. Now I suppose the time may come when it will be necessary to restrict posting in some way or other, but I plan to cross that bridge when I come to it. If I were a faculty member in a department of statistics and I were setting up lists for faculty to communicate with their students, I wouldn't add any more impediments to their use of the lists than absolutely necessary. Time to think about that when and if it becomes necessary and after and after faculty become comfortable using the lists without the necessity of learning how to approve their own postings. Just one man's opinion. Don MacDougall USC School of Medicine

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Can one-way lists be created?
by Larry Tai 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Hi, We have a need to create some class lists where only the instructors can post to the lists, but nobody else. Is this the same as creating a moderated list where: 1. instructor is the moderator 2. dist file contains the e-addresses of all the students in the class 3. reject file contains the same entries as in the dist file Thanks in advance. -- US-Mail: Larry Tai Department of Statistics 368 Kerr Hall University of California, Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: larry(a)wald.ucdavis.edu or lptai(a)ucdavis.edu Tel: (530)-752-6085 FAX: (530)-752-7099

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Re: Can one-way lists be created?
by Donald MacDougall 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 04:49:55PM -0800, Larry Tai wrote: > > Hi, > We have a need to create some class lists where only the instructors > can post to the lists, but nobody else. Is this the same as creating a > moderated list where: > > 1. instructor is the moderator > 2. dist file contains the e-addresses of all the students in the > class > 3. reject file contains the same entries as in the dist file No, what you want to do is different. You want to uncomment the line in the rc.custom file that says: ##foreign_submit note: NOT the line above it that says: #foreign_submit = yes Then you want to rm the symlink named accept which links to the dist file and instead creat an accept file which contains the email addresses of all the people who should be able to submit to the list. Regards, Don MacDougall USC School of Medicine

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Can one-way lists be created?
by Larry Tai 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Hi, We have a need to create some class lists where only the instructors can post to the lists, but nobody else. Is this the same as creating a moderated list where: 1. instructor is the moderator 2. dist file contains the e-addresses of all the students in the class 3. reject file contains the same entries as in the dist file Thanks in advance. -- US-Mail: Larry Tai Department of Statistics 368 Kerr Hall University of California, Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: larry(a)wald.ucdavis.edu or lptai(a)ucdavis.edu Tel: (530)-752-6085 FAX: (530)-752-7099

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is sending via dist "atomic"?
by Richard G. Ball 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

I am using choplist and sendmail to distribute postings. Does anyone (Philip?) know if there is a lock time after choplist does its thing during which the dist file shouldn't be changed? I'm guessing that once I see the entry in the log that the message has been delivered to choplist that it is OK to change the dist file but I wanted to make sure my suumption was correct. [this list isn't large, currently < 300 subscribers] Rich -- richard_ball(a)merck.com (I regret the presence of the legal disclaimer but I have no control over it) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Merck & Co., Inc. (Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please immediately return this by e-mail and then delete it. ==============================================================================

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Moderated + restricted - the other way around?
by Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor] 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Hi there, I'm trying to both cut down on SPAM and the moderation work I need to do on the MLs I manage. So I envision this scenario: - I trust my subscribers; their posts always go to the list. - When a non-subscriber posts, I get to moderate by adding an Approved: header: Mails with a valid Approved: header always get through as well. Unfortunately, SmartList seems to work the other way around: when I combine moderation and restriction, all posts need to be in one of the accept files *as well as* being approved. (This notion seems much less useful to me in general.) I'm trying to get around modifying rc.submit outright, but see no way to do it via any of the rc.local.sXX. Any suggestions? Any help would be much appreciated. -- Cheers =8-} Mike Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

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