Otto What we need to calculate is the NET cost to IFIP ie what the WG pays less the royalty to IFIP. How IFIP splits the money internally between TCs & WGs and IFIP's central costs is an IFIP issue not a matter for the publisher. It appears to me Route A (IFIP LNCS) 5850 - 1444 = 4406 Route B (Standard LNCS) 4242 - 0 = 4242 Route C (IFIP main series) 4759 - 3000 = 1759 (maximum) (No royalty on bulk sale and 12% on sale price of full price if/when all sold) Otto - if your figures are correct and I do not have the information to hand this means that after 500 euros of royalties the IFIP main series is cheapest for the IFIP "family". If this is correct then we have to find a way of funnelling more of the royalty back to the TC/WGs to reduce conference costs. For example in the above example why not give 10% of the royalty to the TC/WG that earns it. In most cases (except where full price sales are very low - which is very unusual) the overall cost to the TC/WG would be less than any LNCS price. PROPOSAL - Royalties come in to IFIP as the books sell. An increased proportion should be given to TC/WGs. Once a steady state is reached, TCs could subsidise future events with royalties from past events. Everybody wins. Note - Assuming these figures are correct, the most expensive route is IFIP/LNCS - which looks to be a rip-off. Basically rather than sharing profits with IFIP for offering the publisher a series to publish with the reduction of office work and marketing etc. involved in that, LNCS add a surcharge and pass it back to IFIP less a handling charge of 10%! Good wishes Roger ******************************************** Dr Roger Johnson Dean, Faculty of Social Science & Honorary Secretary, International Federation for Information Processing Birkbeck College, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX UK. Telephone: (+44) 20 7631 6709 FAX: (+44) 20 7631 6727 URL: http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~rgj College location: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=wc1e7hx&Z=1 IFIP: http://www.ifip.or.at/ ******************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Otto Spaniol [mailto:spaniol@informatik.rwth-aachen.de] Sent: 21 October 2005 13:08 To: Spaniol; Eduard Dundler; Roger Johnson; Klaus Brunnstein; turner@cs.clemson.edu; Amy.Brais@springer.com; Ifip-Tc6Linformatik.Rwth-Aachen.De Subject: LNCS Prices once again Dear all, there was another mistake, sor for that ("Ifip regular" was meant to be ""standard LNCS"). Otto -------------------------------------- Proceedings publication example: Assumptions: 250 pages; 151 copies taken by the organisor; estimated 400 copies produced in total (out of which are 50 complimentary copies if IFIP LNCS is used). A1. Total cost for the organisor with "IFIP LNCS": Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50 for free. Total price: 101 x 58 = 5,858 EURO A2: Royalties to IFIP with "IFIP LNCS": 10 percent of estimated 350 books: 0.10 x 350 x 58 = 2,030.20 EURO 10 percent of estimated 249 books: 0.10 x 249 x 58 = 1,444.20 EURO The second line would be valid if no royalties would be paid for the bulk copies; which line is the correct one? B1. Total cost for the organisor with "Standard LNCS": Organisor pays 101 copies, gets 50 for free. Total price: 101 x 42 = 4,242.00 EURO B2: Royalties to IFIP with "Standard LNCS": None at all. C1. Total cost for the organisor with "Regular IFIP series": Total price: 151 x 31.52 = 4,759.52 EURO C2: Royalties to IFIP with "Regular IFIP series": 12 percent of 400 books (list price!): 0.12 x 400 x 100 EURO = 4,800.00 EURO 12 percent of 400 books (bulk price!): 0.12 x 400 x 31.52 EURO = 1,512.96 EURO Is has been assumed here that all of the 400 produced copies would be sold. I assume that royalty paid would be a mixture of price for bulk sales and for books sold on the free market (whose number could be very near to zero since the normal list price is 125 USD, i.e. approx. 100 EURO, which is outrageously high) and that no rroyalties will be paid for books which have been produced but can nver be sold due to high prices. This needs explanation.